Thursday, June 22, 2006

Two Types of Liberals

Based on the conventional wisdom, there are only two types of liberals. There's the crazy, angry left who's always lashing out at this administration not because they've actually done anything wrong but because they just hate the most incompetent president ever who can't even ride a bike or eat a pretzel without causing the Grim Reaper's alarm to sound. On the other hand, there's the boring, nerdy, ineffectual liberal who has no ideas and just does whatever his mother tells him to do.

Basically, it boils down to this. If you have an opinion or speak out against the Republican Domination Tour 2006, you are by all measures angry. Yet if you try to work bi-partisan on solutions you are a girlie man who has no ideas and needs to suckle on the tit of the mother Republican for nurishment. Unless you're Joe Lieberman - then you're the ideal Democrat, because you are a shill for the Republican Domination Tour 2006.

My first question is this - who makes up the angry right? Even unelected officials like Ann Coulter who spew insensitive, hate-filled rhetoric are not demonized as nearly as angry as a Howard Dean (who accumulated one of the most moderate voting records while in the Senate). Can you even get angry as a Republican or will God forgive you so it's ok?

Why is someone like Bill Frist or George Allen not treated like the incompetent boob they have exhibited themselves to be? (ignoring the mental shortcomings of the guy afraid of pretzels). Seriously, why was there not more outrage over Frist's diagnosis of Schiavo over a video screen? And in what universe can George Allen be a senator yet a frontrunner for the 2008 presidential nominee? Seriously, it would take George Allen and Dubya a lifetime to finish a book report on "My Pet Goat". Yet the conventional wisdom treats them as if they are not mentally challenged.

All I'm saying is could we please start judging people based on the truth. If someone's a wimp, I agree with pointing it out. If someone comes across as an arrogant blowhole, please don't hesitate to point it out. And if someone comes across as a drooling head trauma victim, by God's divine intervention, please let the American people know.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

When was Howard Dean in the Senate?

6/22/2006 06:44:00 PM  
Blogger betmo said...

curious myself. i have been running into many right leaners these days and when i have tried to bring up counter points to their 'talking points,' they have accused me of being 'negative' and only wanting to hear opinions like mine. i am not sure why. surely, the idea of communication is to listen to the other side and put your side up there- and may the best discussion win. not only do i want to hear opinions from the right- real ones not the standard rhetoric- but i have ventured out to find some. i have come up miserably short, hover, because there doesn't seem to be many individuals that i have run across who don't seem angry at the left for being "stupid" and "not getting it." see- can't win.

6/22/2006 07:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dean was never in the Senate - what are you doing, making it up as you go along?

It bothers me that an intelligent guy like yourself who seems sincere about wanting to hear all sides can be so blind to the fact that you are guilty of what you accuse others of. This is the most common 'sin' of 'liberals'- their criminally self-righteous. You don't like simplistic dichotomies about 'liberals (ie. they're weak or they're angry). Yet all we ever heart from you are eauations of conservative with ignorance and bigotry. Well, the fact is most conservatives are not Bible thumping racists. Most conservatives are not in favor of ID (in fact, the judge who threw ID out of shool for good was a Bush appointed Republican). Most conservatives are conservatives simply because they are not comfortable conferring too much power or responsibility upon governement. The don't think govt's do things very well, that they are by their nature innefficient and susceptible to corruption. In other words, they are conservative because they are to one degree or other of a libertarian sensibility. Not because they are quiet white supremacists, or religious fanatics, etc. Similarly, most INFORMED 'liberals' understand that being 'a liberal' is NOT the same as being 'liberal '(ie. open minded, tolerant, etc), or a statement about how comfortable you are with gay sex and black separatism, rather it has to do with the amount of power you are comfortable conferring upon the government. It is one's vision vision of the role of govt that makes one ideologically a 'conservagtive' or a 'libereal', not how much you love blacks and gays or how often you pray or go hunting.

6/22/2006 07:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To judge the right by the likes of Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh is like the talkl radio listening idiots whop crtique the left by citing Howard Stern or Barbara Streisand. It also pays WAY too high a compliment to numbskulls like that; they shouldnt be given soi much attention. Sure, the Bush presidency is probabkly hands down the isngle worst administratin of all time. Nevertheless, I would vote for a Guiliani or a McCain over Hilary or ALGOR in a heartbeat. The fact that the dumbest manever to be predient happens to be a Republican is no reason to give false and iunearned elevation to ppoilitical hacks like AL Gore or Hilary or any other of a number of likely contenders for the throne. I don;t really give a damn what oparty a candidiate is in, I just want someone who seems sincere and competent, not a smarmy carer politician.

6/22/2006 07:34:00 PM  
Blogger melanaise said...

I don't like anonymous posts. I just decided that.


6/22/2006 08:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a warm and fuzzy post for Melanaise:

Republicans are stupid and mean. They hate minorities and the poor care only about corporations.

Democrats are wise and kind. They love minorities and poor folk and hate corporations. They return any contributions they get from Big Business with a note saying "I don't need your Blood Money, whitey!"

Al (short for 'altruist', no doubt) Gore is interested in one thing, and one thing only, SAVING THE PLANET.

I hate bad things and mean people, and like good things and good people.

Is this the sort of post more to your liking, dear heart? 00xx

6/22/2006 09:30:00 PM  
Blogger betmo said...

gee- i guess anon that your mind was working faster than your fingers. i actually agree with what you are saying- i guess i wished that you could have said it without being upset. it is a perfectly valid point- i think that most folks get whipped up by what they think that the other side is like instead of talking about the differences. we obviously have different visions- hence different parties- but my vision is that the moderates on both sides can overcome the stupidity of the politicians and people like coulter and limbaugh- and work with each other to take back our country. not sure why you want to remain anonymous- but hey- whatever floats your boat.

6/22/2006 10:46:00 PM  
Blogger betmo said...

oh- and regarding the howard dean thing- it was most likely an honest mistake- it happens.

6/22/2006 10:47:00 PM  
Blogger Tom G said...

I think Anonymous here is missing the point. So I misspoke on Howard Dean - I hate using excuses but while I post from work I only have so much time to research or proofread. It's latching onto a little point to distarct from the actual point. The Howard Dean things was just an example that had hardly anything to do with the post. It just shows that by most objective measures Dean was a moderate Democrat. Yet once he gained support the conventional wisdom became that he is a crazy extreme left. Damn the actual facts!

Here's a question for you anonymous - when can a liberal actually believe something? Or is it always PC to have a liberal point of view?

And why are people like Markos angry left (he is a former identified Republican who served in the Armed forces) and Ann Coulter is just a funny funny woman who's pointing out the problems with liberal - can't they just take a joke (it's hilarious to recommend killing a Supreme Court justice)?

Just take a look at the last 5+ years and make up your mind how well conservatism in practice works. If you think we're headed in the right direction, then great for you. I don't. And if you want to use the argument that conservatism isn't be practiced, then tell me when will it ever be? The Republicans control the presidency, Congress, and the Supreme Court (though no one wants to admit that Republicans nominated 7 of the current justices). So if this isn't conservatism in practice with total domination of the federal government, then what is? Do we need a dictatorship to fully understand the benefits of conservatism? Is that the only way it can be implemented?

6/23/2006 10:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're conflating conservative with Republican, a common mistake of the politically naive. Bush, for instance, is not a conservative; his support among conservative Repubicans is tenuous, top say the least. Scalia and Thomas are the only bonafide conservatives on the supereme court (Alito may be as well, this has yet to be seen).

Conservative philosophy, as I tried to point out, is about downsizing government. Bush has expanded governemnt and as a result earned the ire of the conservative wing of the party.

The Bush administartion is no more of a test of the propspects of conservative philophy than the Clinton administration (whatever you thought of it of it) was of a liberal administartion. Clinton was not a liberal - a Democrat, yes, a liberal, no. Who is a genuine liberal? People like Mario Cuomo, Ted Kennedy; people who are basically statists, people for ehom the solution to every probelm is to raise taxes and create another inefficuient, corrupt beaurocracy. Then they can point to a worthless, tax consuming agency they inventted and cite it as an accomplishment. What a world.

Also, when did I say Coulter is a funny woman? I loathe Coulter. She's not an intellectual, she's an entertainer, with extremely poor taste. I'm getting th sense increasingly her that you are not very well informed about the issues you discuss - you seem to form your opinions on insubstantial 'pop-news' sources like tabloid pundits and Fox.

You're a bright guy but when it comes to politics, hella naive.

6/23/2006 12:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, that last comment about "do we need a dictatorship before we can say we've tried conservatism" really undersacors your ignorance here. COnservatism is about MINIMIZING the role and power of the central government, preciselythe OPPOSITE of a dictatorship. You're trying to pontificate on issues you know absolutely nothing about. Liberals ar ethe ones wh want a huge central government, This isn't myopinion, BTW, it's the basic difference between conservative and liberal philosophy - the former wants the government to be as small and out of the way as possible, the latter just the opposite. Yousay your aliberal and you hate conservatives, but the truth is you have no clue as to whatthese words actually mean. For all you know, you are yourself a conservative.

I like you, I;m not trying to be a d*ck here, but good grief, get a clue, huh ;)

6/23/2006 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger melanaise said...

"Here's a warm and fuzzy post for Melanaise:

Republicans are stupid and mean. They hate minorities and the poor care only about corporations."

Ouch. Jeez guys who do you have blogging here?

I am not stupid. I am far from mean. My first kiss was from from a chocolate man when I was 12. He had soft lips. I hate major corporations.

I also don't like to be catagorized. I am an independant thinker.

Your post is mean, though.

"Democrats are wise and kind. They love minorities and poor folk and hate corporations."

That is a broad generalization. "People are people so why should it be--you and I should get along so awfulllly??" LOL couldn't resist.

"Is this the sort of post more to your liking, dear heart? 00xx"

wow. thanks again to Mike and Tom's tolerant posters ;-) XOXOXOX

Where did the muppets go??? damnit.

6/24/2006 04:08:00 AM  
Blogger betmo said...

i had a response last night and questions also- but apparently blogger was having issues. i will try to remember... i was curious- genuinely- anonymous as to who is really running the country. these folks are touting themselves as repubs- conservatives(compassionate if i recall)and from what i have seen- they are anything but. what has made this country great in the past is our ability to work together and to listen. yes, we have had some moments in our history where we have not always gotten along- the civil war and civil rights movement comes to mind. my own observation is this- the left is mean spirited towards the right and the right is mean spirited to everyone. why do i say that? and you can certainly dispute it as it is an overgeneralization- well, i have tooled around many right leaning blogs and they are anti-islamic, anti-mexican(not always just illegal aliens), anti women, anti- left wing, anti- environmentalists, anti-science and pretty much anti everything that isn't pro- patriotism and pro-christianity. now i can't believe that most right leaning people actually believe this- or i wouldn't be able to sleep at night- but my question is why is the right fighting so hard to lock out roughly half of the population? i have heard- well, if the liberals would all just drop off the face of the earth things would be great. why?

6/24/2006 10:42:00 PM  
Blogger melanaise said...

hi betmo :-)

6/24/2006 11:10:00 PM  
Blogger Budd said...

Hmm. . . you could bemoan conservative policies and their effect on society if we actually had any. Bush is as conservative as Clinton in the oval office with a box of cigars and Monica.

Anne Coulter is funny. She is really smart. So smart she can come up with the most outragous things to say to piss off everyone and help her sell books. She gets rich off of making people furious. I need that job.

I am tired of people referencing Rush. Most people saying negative things about him have never listened to him. Sure he disagrees with the liberal agenda, but the man is intelligent and informed. I don't think he is a cool aide drinker. He disagrees with Bush a lot, because Bush is not a conservative and Rush is.

6/25/2006 12:32:00 AM  
Blogger melanaise said...

hey budd...people are being all crazy hard on me up in here...I love the crapspot...

I am gonna flip through the archives and read about grover and beaker and James Buchanan's Ghost.

*that* gives me a warm fuzzy.

6/25/2006 01:05:00 AM  
Blogger Tom G said...

I'm not sure what happened to my comment I thought I posted Friday so I apologize if this is too brief.

I obviously know the difference between conservatives and liberals. My point in asking the dictatorship question was in the barriers needed to implement conservatism. If the self-professed conservatives running the country with a Republican Congress and a Republican appointed Supreme Court can't govern under conservative principles, then what would be needed? If conservatism can't be followed given the current political environment, then the question what is needed?
The last 3 Republican presidents have run on a conservative platform but proceeded to dramatically expand government spending.

And I obviously never said you thought Ann Coulter was funny. My point was why is someone like Dean considered angry while Coulter is considered funny. At least this is the conventional wisdom, though hopefully this is changing given Coulter's recent statements and the outrage that's followed. It's similar to you pointing out that liberals believe conservatives are bigots if they don't agree with the PC view. I never took that to include me, since I never said that.

Finally, could we try to discuss issues instead of veering into tangents or misrepresenations. I'm fine with clarifying my points and apologize if I'm not being clear. But I also think we're wasting a lot of time arguing about things I never advocated. It is an effective trick that I use frequently with my family - to nitpick over minor points or exaggerate the point others are making. But at the end of the day it ends up leading to more issues than any type of understanding.

6/25/2006 01:47:00 PM  
Blogger melanaise said...

Yeah, what Tom said!! no nitpicking...



6/25/2006 01:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Tom's last comments were quite reasonable - I just haven;t had time to post since Friday.

Oh and Melanaise, you couldn't possibly have taken that "Republicans are stupid and mean/Democrats are wise & kind" bit at face value could you? I must be misreading you - nothing oculd be more obviously a jibe at - not an endorsement of - such simplistic characterisations. Then perhaps your post was intended ironically and I am gulty of taking you lierally. I am reminded of the Simjnosons Halloween opening with ti=mbstiones for "Subtle Satire" and "IRony" etc. What, do we need to s]poplace an amelioratng winiking smiley everyother line now to aqvoid being taken as too mean? Geez...

<;) <----- note the DUNCE HATE/PARTY HAT WEARING winking smiley; it just don;t get more ameliorating than that.

6/25/2006 02:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

PS - WHat's with the damn typoes? I SWEAR thyey are not there when I am typing, only after I post. My PC is possessed or something.

Simknosons == Simpsons

s]poplace == place

ti=mbstiones == tombstones

6/25/2006 02:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


* Record scrathch sound* - I think I need to qualify my "Tom's latest post is quite reasonable" somewhat, as upon further review, I see he makes some fooish remarks.

With all due respect and winking smileys and all, you seem to some extent to live in a bubble with a silver mirror interior - you see the world as a reflection of your pre-conceived notions. To whit - "Dean is considered angry and Coulter is considered funny". Do we live in the same universe? Coulter is widely regarded as an angry bitch and is routinely lampooned across the media spectrum. I've heard her attacked on right wing talk radio even, for crisakes. WHy can't they BOTH be assholes? Also, Coulter is a pop media pundit for crisakes, while Dean was (gasp) runninf for the highset office in the land, hence YES, he deserves greater scrutiny and his gaffes loom larger than hers. You say your all for explorinmg the nuances and shades of gray, and yet you continue to present a portrait of the world marked by stark contrasts of black and white, good and evil, COulter and Dean. You have got to try harder to be more like me, Tom.

6/25/2006 04:17:00 PM  
Blogger melanaise said...

Okay, I will reintroduce myself...I am never to be taken literally...I frolick here as long as Mike and Tom let me...(thanks guys, FYI)

You are forgiven. ;-) (depends on how bad you want to be forgiven)

BEG BEG!!! LOL...yes, sarcasm, and sillyness is my forte. Just don't correct my typos whoever!! I type fast. ((tom))

6/25/2006 11:49:00 PM  
Blogger Tom G said...


I appreciate the fact that my opinions, yes, my opinions, bother you so much. My search is to come to conclusions, which shockingly end up being opinions, based on open thought. Still, at the end of the day this results in opinions. I base my observations on how I view the media and it's treatment of Coulter and Dean. Am I right? Well, yes. In the sense that it's my opinion. Am I right in the actual way the media is behaving? Maybe so. Maybe not. But this is my blog and the postings are my opinions. Feel free to disagree and feel free to give me your opinions. And feel free to keep the personal attacks coming. It's definitely much easier to call someone names (naive, foolish, live in a bubble) than to engage in a discussion. And I'll just leave you with this to jump all over so we can set a new Life is Crap comments record - for someone so troubled by the Moral superiority expressed by liberals (who only believe in things because they're PC), you sure exhibit a lot yourself.

Peace - 2 Fingers.


6/26/2006 10:04:00 AM  
Blogger melanaise said...

I feel so...ignored...I like hearing your opinions. Please don't back down or I will lose all respect for my favorite log.

well..that was a dirty lie, but don't back down.

Tom Petty says it, so it's Gospel.

6/27/2006 07:44:00 PM  

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